The Growth and Challenges of Digital Nomadism: A Conversation with Danish Soomro

Welcome to the Future is Freelance podcast for solopreneurs, digital nomads, slowmads, consultants, remote workers, e-residents and people living a life without traditional boundaries. We're here for everyone who defies categorization and makes a living in a life their own way. Every other Freelance Friday, we're serving up an audio cocktail of expert tips, inspired insights and stories from the frontiers of freelancing To help you achieve success with your borderless business, whatever success means to you as you live life on your own terms. Thanks for listening to the Future is Freelance and for being part of the Future of Work Revolution. I wanted to share today's interview with you because I spoke to Danish Sumerow actually back in April it was and I've been trying to find the right moment to release this amongst everything else that's been going on, but it's truly timeless conversation because Danish is one of the original digital nomads in the world and the advice he's got to offer his insight into the vision of how the future of work, freelancing and travel are all synergizing and coming together. You will find this inspiring in a completely evergreen way. Citizenship should not be where you're born, but where you are. Today is one of the key messages that I took away from this and the fact that we all have more in common, as travelers and remote workers, than where we were born or the piece of paper that gives us permission to travel around the world. Enjoy this conversation, and I'd love to hear what you think about it.

I am. It's such a pleasure, i'm really excited to be with you. So my right now I'm in Thailand. It's like a big hot spot for digital nomads in Asia Bali, indonesia and Thailand. So right now I'm here. My entrepreneurial journey started, i should say, back in 2015. I was in a tech worker in Toronto, typically, you know, like a nine to five thing, and then I, you know, quit the job, even though it was remote but it was limiting where I could travel. So I quit it. I moved to Rio de Janeiro and that's where I could say that my entrepreneurial journey started. I mean, if we go back, i'm an entrepreneurial since I was a baby, you know I was selling. But but if we were recent, in the recent memory, less like 2015, i would say Brilliant, okay, so you're in Thailand now.

Is that a permanent base for you, or do you consider yourself nomadic?

Oh well, i'm actually a full-time nomad for last seven days, so yes, it's tiring. But the only problem of all the digital nomads would understand if we stay longer, we get bored, we have an edge to move again and then if you're moving fast, we want to like stay longer at one place, right? so I am here for a month, going to Dubai in two weeks for food, only the script. I have nothing to do in Dubai just because of food, and then we'll end up in European summer.

Brilliant, okay. So you do you have anywhere that you consider your your home, or are you truly a global citizen?

I think home is where your heart is a very cliche term but to be honest it's. It's also true because, after living in so many countries, you know like in your home is a tiny village of Oaxaca and Machico, you know, and other places, because you have lived there, you hang out your friends, you're kind of emotionally connected. So, yes, the whole world feels yours so. But Toronto, let's say, if you have to, for the passport I'm carrying, or where I have more work and social friends. So Toronto, that would be the city I would say, okay, so that's interesting.

But, yeah, truly a global citizen. And that was one of the reasons I was really interested to talk to you, because I'm not a digital nomad. I would consider myself very much a slow mad, even though I'm a very long-term remote worker and not in the country I started off in, but one of the reasons I was drawn to you, to your work, was the way that you've built community online, and particularly in the Facebook community digital nomads around the world. So I'd love to unpack a little bit more about the history of that and this is a very selfish question, speaking as the organizer of the remote work Spain community, which is tiny, minnow in the stream compared to digital nomads around the world. So please tell me why you started that, when and how did it grow to be the huge success it is today?

So there are few layers, i would say everybody who's listening, digital nomads around the world is the most positive, i should say, most uplifting, most supportive community of global digital nomads and it's a very strict criteria, to be honest. Everybody's screen and accepted. So please join that community and mention that you want to become a digital nomad within a year so you can get accepted strictly. So John from Spain, he actually started it and I became a co-founder later and then I co-founded a project called digital nomad nations. It was an idea to create a country on the internet because what digital nomads believe, or global citizens believe, that citizenship should not be where you were born, but it should be who you are today. So I think safety is also doing in that regard, pulmiarized a similar concept digital nomad nation and few other projects in a similar theme. So we started that and we did our best, we tried it and then, you know, we renamed that project into digital nomads around the world community. So now it has about 160,000 members. The meta is directly supporting us. I'm working with matter right now and they love the. You know the engagement, they love our mission and what we are doing. So they're directly supporting us. We have certain brand support us. We have a vision and vision. It's just a lot of fun to you know, to be there, and I'm not the only. There are the team of moderators there is. Like it's not me.

I shouldn't say that I didn't take that, i just posed a lot because I love to hang out in general yeah, i see you as very much the face of that community because you're in there starting conversations and nurturing the debate in a really wholesome way. And I love the art, the whole principle of a country on the internet and it seems that you had that idea very early on, before the network state book, before plumea you you were already thinking that these people have more in common than that transcends the geography and that's really powerful. Do you know what sort of membership you have now? where, where is everybody? or does that even matter?

yeah, i mean it doesn't, but generally there are some countries where you know like the majority of the digital mats either come from or they have a luxury because of their you know the country's culture to give remote work Like take my own example I was a full-time remote worker in 2015. So Canada and US I would say North America generally were quite open from 2013. So naturally, the whole Silicon Valley was in our community because there were no other spaces to discuss this specific lifestyle. So North America, i would say, still leading today And surprisingly, covid kind of enabled, to be honest, pretty much everyone. So now we have I'm so excited to see people joining from actually Thailand, thai natives, people from Singapore, japan These are Japanese locals who want to travel to South America and want to become a digital nomad. So now we kind of represent 100 countries, but it's still Europeans and North Americans leading the majority of the committee members.

Yeah, I would say that that pretty much reflects what I can glean about the listenership to the show as well, Probably just simply, as you said, adoption effects that this is the countries where people listen to podcasts, the countries that had the advanced digital infrastructure, and it's only more recently. I think that's really exciting that you're starting to see that movement the other way, as it were. traditionally it was wealthy Western countries. people went to exploit the geo-arbitrage of go and live in Asia for a bit and live really cheaply, And you're starting to see people from the global South unlock that same privilege. So that's really exciting. Is that something that's really post COVID, then?

Yeah, so I mean there are multiple trends, by the way, people watching. I'm also founder of visaevio, which is the biggest database for visas, because I'm an immigrant myself. I'm Pakistani, born Canadian, like a naturalized Canadian citizen, so it's an attack worker. So tech immigration, then digital nomads. So I am really interested in these mobility platforms, global mobility patterns, and I'm really excited that it's changing. Now Canadians and Americans applying visas in Thailand and in full pains and long term visas, they're looking for citizenship. It was already there in a smaller scale, but now it's getting bigger And global migration patterns are changing And I'm really excited because you would agree with me that world is a better place if there are more travelers. Because we have more tolerance we have more, like you know, harmony in the world. I feel.

Yes, absolutely Like you, I'm a personal melting pot of Indian grandparent and British national living in Europe, estonian resident these other things which blend together to keep life interesting. But my experience is that I've never met anyone who's traveled extensively, who is small minded. you know, people transcend issues of race and culture just by experiencing the ways that different people live. And I wish we could have some sort of national service where we send people overseas just to go and see another culture. And you know it should be compulsory before you study.

Yeah, i've seen people you know on my travel the bite they take of this new food experience or new. They're watching the dance, you know, like in Samba Dronmo in Rio de Janeiro, and they're like, if you look at their eyes, their face glowing, and they're like, you know, moment of discovery and this new experience, this is so sexy and beautiful And that person kind of changed at that moment. So I agree with you the more experience they have, the more sexier they become and our world also gets better.

Definitely. That's really exciting, and your startup at the moment, then, is looking at the whole visa issue. Obviously, that's something that's changed. what is changing? every every few months, it seems, there's another digital Nomad visa hitting the streets. Spain is one of the most recent offerings, even if it's not quite sure whether it's correct to describe it as a digital Nomad visa. there's some debate over that But what are the big trends and issues that you're seeing there?

Yeah, so I mean, if you notice, so just to let you know, visadb is funded by European Union and government of Chile and government of Poland, because we started way earlier And then notice they notice the most boring thing who's this guy trying to solve this migration problem, right? So they kind of supported this project And now you can hire immigration experts and look at the visa. It's free, it's my service, my a lot of my work. It's a free database for everyone because I want people to live abroad. So, yes, so now I think a lot of countries are trying to tap into it. Technically, digital Nomads are long term tourists. Let's say in a nutshell, right? Because before it was only 30 days or 90 days. Now digital Nomad visa creates a path to stay longer and also not become a text or become a text, and then both options are open depending on the country. So that gives an individual to spend longer, can lease apartment longer, can experience the whole country. You know like there are a lot of digital Nomadic families that they can move like single nomads, so it's an ideal thing. So a lot of countries are jumping on this bandwagon, i should say, and rightly so as well, because who doesn't want long term tourists who are going to spend the money which they did not earn.

They're in abroad, so that's 100%, and it's great to see countries that might not be rich in terms of GDP but have amazing natural resources, like the Caribbean or Hawaii, or able to entice people to come and spend their global income there. Where do you think? what would be the logical conclusion of all this, though? Will we ultimately, i'm wondering, if we'll even kind of take away the power of the passport in the end and we'll have a lot more flexibility and choice about where we go, or am I just kidding myself as a Brit stranded in Europe I think I'm the most like.

I am pushing, i do a lot of work to advocate nomadism, to advocate more travel And even, to be honest, i'm calling people out who are settling without, without any travel plans. I'm calling them hey guys, come on, When single mothers can travel around the world, you have no excuse. So this is all my work, all my passion. But there's another side to it that, surprisingly, not everybody is on the same page as you, and so it's really hard to see. Countries are not that open yet And we also digital numerses. We make fun of it. We say, hey, why do you need a birth certificate? I'm alive, i'm standing in front of you. So there is some red tape, i should say, or these governmental processes, which is going to limit what you and I are desiring or promoting or advocating. So this is the only worry I have, and it's getting a little bit weirder since post-COVID. But we will be doing our work, you and I and other influencers or people, and promoting it and making it at least easy. If the travel without passports is not possible, we can try our best to make it at least easier.

Yeah, it's an interesting one because it's getting easier in some respects And in other ways people could say it's getting more restrictive, simply because of it's harder to wing it, not to put too fine a point on it. We all know that before the existence of actual digital numerses, there were a lot of people doing things much more informally and even managing to live without any tax residency and just drifting from place to place on one long holiday, But obviously they were working and so on. Do you think that's made it more difficult?

Yeah, so I mean for me, my perspective comes from my background as well, because I also create awareness around the people, like there are 30 countries who can travel or 60 countries who can travel anywhere without any problem. But I am also raising a white that this high earning software developer in Chennai. He's making a lot of money, but the problem he has a passport, he wants to travel, he has a will, he has resources. The only problem the book he's holding is not letting him to access what some of the other citizenship have, so similar to that. There are a lot of passports, which is still harder. So at one point I agree with you that for certain, citizenship is easier And I should put myself in it because holding a Canadian passport is kind of easier And there are working holiday visas available for younger nomads and many others. But that half of the world who is totally qualified, totally have resources. We are still seeing a problem and is getting more on the limit side, hopefully digital nomad visas creating a path. But with this birth certificate, vector certificate, it's difficult but it's still. I am happy. For example, columbia give two-year digital nomad visa And I've heard that a lot of people from India, from Sri Lanka from other countries which traditionally are not a non-nomadic countries. They also have got in it. So this is a big news And I hope that that trend continues.

That's a really important point, actually, because the sheer privilege that we have and the British passport is still pretty privileged despite losing 27 countries. It's one of those things that's like a hygiene factor you can take for granted If you've never had to have your right to go somewhere questioned or held up or disrupted. and, yeah, these visas are definitely doing a very powerful job in unlocking these opportunities more globally. So let's talk about how people are funding it, then, and the work they're doing. This podcast is really aimed at freelancers, solipreneurs, individual independent operators. I'd love to know your thoughts about that scene and the future of work for individuals. What sort of things are you observing in the communities that you're working with?

I think the future is freelance. I think this is when I read your article She just put it like what is the world is going to be like? And with recent development in chat, gpt, that is going to further break up these organized, hierarchical organization structures where you're performing or you're creating certain values sitting in a building altogether. That will be breaking up and more power will be going to freelancers. In digital nomads, freelancing is always even. There are full-time employees, there are kind of freelancers because of text reasons. So to give you an example, if I'm an American company, i would be hiring a contractor who can travel anywhere in the world, not an employee, because that creates a lot of risks for me as a US company. So project-based economy is the future. Already we are seeing that this individual, these like what should I say? personalized lifestyle or experience, matter first. Change of life goals and buying a house, having two kids That's not anymore the life goals. People still have somewhere down the line, but that's not the top two, three priorities. So lifestyle changes, economies changes and this new technology is coming in and the new workforce of Gen Z. If we combine all these factors, to be honest, there is nothing else. But the future is freelance. So you're already on this trend and that's what I'm seeing it. Chair DPD is going to hurt freelancers a little bit. We can talk about it later, but yeah, these are the trends.

Yeah, yeah, that's a whole big trend in itself. But, yeah, I would agree 100% that compliance is the big frontier at the moment. I've just got back from the Running Remote Conference in Lisbon, which was amazing, and I need to record a podcast about that. I'm going to do a solo episode as soon as I can organize my thoughts enough, but it's no spoiler to say that a great deal of the exhibitors for me, i thought they were going to be more of the solution providers, the tech, the people that are creating the collaboration solutions, but they don't need to sell anymore. We know they fixed it, we can collaborate. The people paying to be there in exhibit were the employees of record and the compliance solutions. They're the ones who are there competing with each other to fix this, because this is so fragmented and so uneven at the moment. It's like I'm in this country and I want to hire this expert Here. he lives there, he's got that passport, he might want to travel in this area, and these are the really complicated, notty problems and definitely contracting is one answer. we're starting to see more of the kind of solutions with different entities in different countries. The stony and residency solution is one that's popular, so people can be independently nomadic, but their business can live in one place. What do you think the outcomes gonna be? will we all be solopreneurs with our separate business entities? what do you think that the big umbrella companies will find? something that works for us all?

Yeah, problem. So just everybody knows, i hosted about 45 sessions with tax and immigration experts, like you are doing it right now for the community. I invite one country, you know, every two weeks or three weeks and we discuss What are the options. So I'm also consult on a like a as a courtesy, because they're not a lot of people who knows the global.

Text structures.

So, as an entrepreneur to help the community, i also consult people there. So, yes, it is the umbrella companies offer good value to, again, big, massive organization, structure, organization who have workforces in 50 countries and they need, of course, a service to manage, to pay Payroll. You know, ip, intellectual, all these things. But for smaller companies are startups, are products with smaller teams. I think solopreneur, wyoming, lc Stonia you mentioned UK LLP or Canada. There are few structures. We say corporate vehicles for solopreneurs were remote or traveling. That offers more value and compliance, which we love, and remote opening of bank account. So I think that this is going to be going. There is a trend one million, one person, one million dollar companies. I'm sure you've heard about it. This is a new trend in digital and magic companies that you are on purpose not hiding people. Instead, you are, you know, trying to just keep it lean using the tool, hiding contractors and then trying to hit the one million, you know, like a revenue mark within a few years. So, yeah, solopreneur I see personally is more And I'm really companies. Again, they offer value to different type of audience.

Yeah, that's so interesting because we're also seeing this in the line the tech sector, particularly in the light of massive Layoffs and retractional whatever you want to call it from the boom over hiring of the last couple of years. I've talked to a number of medium sized organizations who've got hiring freezes and then not replacing often quite senior roles. They're delegating things further down the line to more junior people and I don't know there still seems to be even very lean and flat agile organizations. There seems to be a bit of a divide between freelancers and full time employed people and It's like why don't you make that a fractional strategic role then? and you know, rather than say, well, we're not going to have a senior person doing this particular role. So I think maybe we just need even greater flexibility.

Yeah, yeah, i think there are. Senior roles are becoming more of like a freelancer is called fractional CTO, fractional CEO. These are the senior executives who are laid off and now they're offering is good, because smaller companies can have access to that kind of expertise and experience And they don't need to pay them, you know, like massive amount. They can hire them for two hours. So this is the trend and also, again, artificial intelligence is going to change the whole fabric of even remote work because it's going to attack on knowledge workers, especially lower and medium skill remote workers. So that is going to further affect the job market and so I see more kind of freelance and you already mentioned I'm working with matter right now and they have freeze. They frozen, i don't know, since last year. So, yeah, some more power to individuals and there will be different goals and it's going to be exciting. I'm excited.

Yeah, and I think you're right. Just what can be done with these large language learning modules is going to have to push the decision making and the strategic Aspects of human creativity more to the front, when you know the content mills are dead. Fact checkers going to be busy, i think for a while, but certainly it's the thinking and the innovating that we're going to have more space for humans to do, i hope yes, i am, i'm not.

Yeah, i have already. So you, as you can see in my description, is a dead social media manager. I think what I see as a as a entrepreneur, tech entrepreneur, building tech products and already jump onto the AI product, is that I think the boring task, or most like tedious task, we should use AI for that, because nobody likes to do it. I like to do it, not even my VA like to. I mean, they are younger. Of course, they have to do it to make money, but they don't enjoy it, that kind of boring task. So I think we need to use AI for that, and certain analysis which could be missed by humans or human can produce error. I think for those tasks and processes, i think we all should like support AI. And then, of course, the other type of things which we digital nomads, a community we are, we hate wars because that destroys the beautiful landmarks around the world and we cannot see it. You know, we we advise, maybe because we want to enjoy that, whatever country. So my worry is that AI is being used in military or conflict. So that's no.

No for boring task, yes, yes yes, indeed, if only we could control what everybody was going to use it for and some kind of unilateral freeze. I've got to change anything. I'm not going to stop people developing this stuff now, for better or for worse, i guess. just going back to what you were saying about emerging opportunities for more people in the global south to access this digital nomad lifestyle and work globally, do you think? do you see the AIs as a threat for that in particular, because it's kind of the entry level opportunities that might be eroded, the product descriptions of the social media or whatever. How can we solve that one, do you think?

Yes. So I mean there, i have a person, i have a team and I have my personal help, i would say, and my team and she helped me. From Mexico, shout out Paula, and she is also using AI. So I think the so for the people, for your audience, who are starting a digital nomad I am actually. We are creating a lot of discussion around it because, you know, we are our people, our people, our community. We want to make sure that they protect their income and continue digital nomadic lifestyle sustainably. I mean, anyone can do one year gap year or one year like working lightly, blah, blah, blah, but we want to create sustainable, high-income digital demands, traveling and contributing around the world. So for that, start working on your software skills and start building the network, especially local network, not online. So, if you're in the UK, don't look for clients in San Francisco. No, look for clients in Manchester, look for clients in London. So you need to start building your network, start working on software skills. And the third, the more important, is start learning how to use AI. You can call it a prompt engineering, so you can make them.

Yeah, we're all going to have to be good prompt engineers going forwards. But I totally agree, We're going to have to be good at giving good customer service. as you said, those software skills just that simply being great to work with is going to be somewhere the machines can't compete because they won't have that sense of alignment with whatever our clients are trying to accomplish. that we're trying to help them with. So it will help us get the questions and the prompts right to pull out the right answers for them. So it makes time for us, Yeah.

So this laziness or this like oh, i'm not going to be. You guys have to be on toes, because freelancers are entrepreneurs, you like it or not. Even if you're working full time, you're still an entrepreneur, you're still a contractor. It can be canceled anytime. So you guys have to be on your toes. You are competing with AI. Don't try to compete in analyzing or memory or quickly reviewing the time. You can beat it. As already, maya said how to be nice, how to serve people. I think this is exciting because everybody has to serve, otherwise they won't change.

Well, i know that when I collaborate or outsource things, those are the things I look for. There's usually more than one person who can do the thing to an acceptable professional standard, but to find the person who's reliable, who's communicative, who's impeccable with their work they do the thing by the time they say. They do it with no excuses or disappearing. Those are the things that make the difference And I guess that's not going to change And probably hasn't changed since you started in your entrepreneurial journey. Right, these are universal.

It's a universal And then before there was no competition, So masses could do that, And now it's a different game. So if you want to be a digital nomad and if you want to have a income, you have to be in your top AA game. So this time management or showing up, these are not even you have to. It will be a prerequisite. There's no other way.

Absolutely, it's table stakes today, even if it wasn't always And we can't blame the technology anymore. I was traveling or I was offline. People know that it just works now and it's up to you to make it work. But apart from the tech trends, i'd love to know some of the biggest things. Obviously we've mentioned chat, gpt, but what are the biggest sort of cultural things you've seen change since you started your nomadic journey And what do you wish you'd known back then or that you knew was coming?

Yeah, i think before COVID it was extremely hard, extremely, extremely, extremely hard. So, first, you have a challenge to generate an income online, let's say sustainable. Second, there was a societal pushback. Somehow You were judged. Either you were hated if you were successful nomad or if you're trying to become one, you will be judged or put down by your network or people who living a traditional lifestyle. Because, to be honest, digital nomadism is an innovation to lifestyle. Let's say, and Tesla is making rockets to go to moon, digital nomad came up with like hey, like 40 hour work week from the office that is created in 1890 by Ford. Let's change something. And so they came up with it. So, before COVID, these were the two massive challenges and only strong, willed and very alpha type or a boss, babe or alpha, whatever these other terms normally. But my point why are there? very strong personalities were able to manage this lifestyle. Now, what has changed culturally post COVID? First, the world learns oh, there is an alternative way to live. Wow, i don't need to rely on 14 days, like 10 days off in a year. That's in North America, i'm telling you North America Standard in Europe, no better. So now possibility, less judgment and still masses. You don't need to have an online business on your own to be a digital nomad Now, and you don't need to be a software engineer to be a digital nomad. So these are the changes. Let me share some stats 5,000 recent members who were accepted in the community, 60% of them were women, so that's a great sign, and we also. They have to tell us what they do, and I saw accounting, i saw marketers, i saw architectures all kind of occupations. So I think these are the major shifts in the culture around the world, the acceptance of this lifestyle and also now inspiring to become a digital nomad.

That's fantastic. These are really exciting trends to observe And, as well as your work with the community and on your visa database, what are the things are you working on right now? What have you got your eye on for the future?

Yes, so I'm actually working on something called AI-driven entrepreneurship. This is my domain because, whether we like it or not, we will all be using, especially entrepreneurs, their creators, and they would love to use these tools to address the global challenges, and there are so many challenges. We think that we sorted out. No, we are very primitive And there are so many problems to be solved. So AI-driven entrepreneurship will aid entrepreneurs or digital nomads in offering certain work done faster. So Devi is one of the tool in that toolkit which I'm building. So that's the social media manager. Boring tasks. Now I'm attacking next the bookkeeping through AI. That's what I will be working on. So a few projects I'm working on. They are all in a domain of AI-driven entrepreneurship, so that will be my work Brilliant.

Next up. I think we're going to have to do another episode about that, because there's lots of things I want to double click on there, but I think, yeah, clearly you've got your eye on the future And we know where that's going. Where can people follow your work, where's the best place to keep in touch with you And all the things that you're up to. Thank you very much.

Yeah, so community is the better option, but I also portion LinkedIn and and in community quite active. If you want to Follow there, i would say LinkedIn and the community. So just to let you know that I don't necessarily manage the community. I mean there are the whole team, they have the whole principle. So if they join I Don't know if you would you please fill out the the form and tell that within one year So you can get accepted? you can follow that. If you don't, there LinkedIn Danish somewhere you can see my name. You can also search Debbie, you will found it, we will find me on LinkedIn and then you can follow Travel I mean Instagram. But to be honest, i'm not a typical Traveling fruit like I don't put, i'm not beautiful number one and I'm not putting of those. You know I'm.

We're all beautiful Danish, but yeah, we don't need any more pictures of laptops on palm trees and beaches. And yeah, maybe we're beyond that now. You know, you know we're a post palm tree world of real entrepreneurialism.

Yes, i think yeah, so you can follow me and I will be really excited. I will be. I will be on the Nomad cruise in the future. I'll be in Danko, so if you're visiting, let's hang out. I love dancing and I'm yogi as well, so, yeah, awesome.

Well, that's gonna be great. Well, thank you so much. This is a really exciting Conversation. It's made me excited about the future and some of the things coming down the track. I know, as we acknowledged, a lot of people might feel threatened, might feel Disconcerted by some of the technological changes we're dealing with, but I think you've left people in a good place in order to feel positive and excited about the change.

So, danish, I Want to show my guy six few seconds and I show my gratitude. Thank you very much for inviting and thank you for having this great energy and great you know Project you're leading, so so really really appreciate it Everybody who's watching it. Thank you very much for listening. I have nothing too much important to say, but I could just share some of the the things. So my last message will be stay hopeful and Let's have a lot of fun. Fantastic Thanks, danish. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to the future is freelance podcast. We appreciate your time and attention in a busy world and your busy life. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a fellow freelancer. Help us grow this movement of independent entrepreneurs. If you rate and review the future is freelance in whatever app you're listening to this right now or over at future is freelance dot XYZ, then that will help spread the word and help us reach more people who need to hear this message. You join the conversation. Together We can change the world and make sure the future is freelance. This is my middle miss, wishing you success and happiness in your enterprise until our next episode.