May 17, 2024
Empowering Refugees with Skills for Remote Work Success: The Na'amal Story with Lorraine Charles
Discover how Na'amal's Lorraine Charles is transforming lives by equipping refugees with remote work skills that pave the way for sustainable careers.
Today we discover the potential of remote work in empowering displaced individuals in Africa and the Middle East to support their families, even in the absence of traditional employment opportunities. Lorraine describes the incredible journey of these learners as they transition from students to skilled professionals, now contributing to the global workforce via the Na'amal's agency, and how they are managing to give back to their communities.
But beyond social enterprise, the business case is clear when clients keep coming back for more, proving the high quality and dedication of the refugee talent. The practical aspects of hiring and payment processes are also simplified, as we learn about accessible international transaction services and the game-changing nature of mobile money in Africa. Our discussion opens up new perspectives on the power of mentorship, showcasing how connections formed through Na'amal can lead to growth, direct employment, and the strengthening of a supportive global community.
Finally, we touch on how YOU can help, and incredible value of mentorship.
This episode is not just a conversation, it's an invitation to be a part of something bigger—a global movement towards a more connected and empathetic world.
Join us and be inspired by the stories of success, resilience, and the collective power of mentorship in making a difference.
Follow Lorraine here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorraine-charles/
And find out all the ways you can support and get involved with Na'amal at
https://naamal.org/get-involved/
🌟 REMOTE WORK EUROPE CONNECTED IS OPEN 🌟
And you can find all our latest training and resources in our online store.
Finally, make sure you're subscribed to receive our free newsletter, packed with information, updates, and REAL remote job opportunities every week 😎
Here's to your own remote future 🤩
Chapters
00:05 - Empowering Refugees Through Remote Work
09:56 - Empowering Refugees Through Remote Work
22:56 - Supporting Remote Work Mentorship for Refugees
34:24 - Remote Work Europe Mentorship Opportunities
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:05.248 --> 00:00:11.201
you're listening to the remote work europe podcast, the show formerly branded as the future is freelance.
00:00:11.201 --> 00:00:13.769
The name has changed, but our values have not.
00:00:13.769 --> 00:00:23.963
We're still the podcast for solopreneurs, digital nomads and slowmads, consultants, remote workers, e-residents and everyone living a life without traditional boundaries.
00:00:23.963 --> 00:00:30.571
We're here for people who defy categorization, those who make a living and a life their own way in Europe and beyond.
00:00:30.571 --> 00:00:43.871
Fortnightly, on Fridays, we're serving up expert tips, inspired insights and stories from the frontiers of freelancing and the remote work revolution to help you achieve success with your borderless business and liberated lifestyle.
00:00:43.871 --> 00:00:45.310
Whatever success means to you as you live life on your borderless business and liberated lifestyle.
00:00:45.310 --> 00:00:47.549
Whatever success means to you as you live life on your own terms.
00:00:54.716 --> 00:01:04.963
Here at Remote Work Europe, we're fortunate enough to be able to choose where we want to live and do the kind of work we want to do from pretty much anywhere that we want to make home.
00:01:04.963 --> 00:01:16.121
It's easy to forget how lucky that is when so many people in the world have to leave their homes, live in a displaced way.
00:01:16.121 --> 00:01:20.016
They might have to undertake incredibly difficult journeys, not because they choose to or to upgrade their lifestyle, but simply in order to survive.
00:01:20.016 --> 00:01:32.233
Remote work brings so many powerful things to our own situations that it's easy to overlook how absolutely life-changing or life-saving remote work could be for people with less born privilege.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:51.519
For me, it was incredibly inspiring to talk to Lorraine Charles from Namaal, who is working with refugee populations in Africa and the Middle East to teach them remote work skills which can support them and help them support their families and create lasting careers in a way that's location independent.
00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:56.721
For people whose lives have been changed by location issues, it's hard to underestimate how powerful this could be.
00:01:56.721 --> 00:02:12.936
So I'm sure you're going to enjoy this interview with Lorraine Charles and please check the show notes to find out ways that you can get involved with NAML, including volunteering, funding, support and mentorship, to help other remote workers enjoy the same kinds of ideas and privileges that we do.
00:02:12.936 --> 00:02:19.233
So, lorraine, thank you very much for joining us here at the Remote Work Europe podcast.
00:02:19.233 --> 00:02:20.324
It's great to have you with us.
00:02:20.941 --> 00:02:22.907
Thank you, it's really exciting to be here.
00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:27.444
Well, I'm looking forward to learning all about the amazing work you're doing at Namal.
00:02:27.444 --> 00:02:32.725
But before we go there, we love to talk a little bit to our guests first about their own personal journey.
00:02:32.725 --> 00:02:39.451
How we end up doing the things we do is so unique and fascinating for each person, so please tell us a bit of the Lorraine story first.
00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:40.561
Thank you.
00:02:40.561 --> 00:02:51.843
So I always started to say I'm a reluctant entrepreneur, I didn't set up to have my own startup, I didn't want to have my own business, I didn't want to do any of this, but I was a researcher.
00:02:51.843 --> 00:03:05.731
I am a researcher so I was doing research, looking at the challenges that refugees faced in the Middle East, looking particularly at that time at Jordan and Turkey and then later Lebanon, and first I started looking at education.
00:03:05.731 --> 00:03:12.125
But I became interested in what happens post K-12 education, what happened to refugees after they finished school?
00:03:12.125 --> 00:03:18.007
And if you look at the funding for higher education, the funding decreases the older the refugees get.
00:03:18.007 --> 00:03:24.675
So at the time I was doing this research, less than 5% of refugees attended higher education.
00:03:24.675 --> 00:03:30.709
Now it's a bit higher and there's a target by UNHCR for 15% by 2030.
00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:33.862
So I was curious to understand what happened as secondary education.
00:03:33.862 --> 00:03:46.271
So I started to research livelihoods, wanted to understand what the livelihood contexts were for Syrian refugees in the Middle East, and I spoke to lots of different organizations and I saw lots of organizations doing great training in digital work.
00:03:46.271 --> 00:03:48.164
They would be becoming coders.
00:03:48.164 --> 00:03:50.610
They were doing loads of really cool digital stuff.
00:03:50.610 --> 00:03:52.604
But the context around the Middle.
00:03:52.704 --> 00:03:57.354
East in terms of employment at that time and still now, was very challenging for refugees.
00:03:57.354 --> 00:04:03.252
Refugees didn't have access to employment legal employment in the countries that hosted them.
00:04:03.252 --> 00:04:06.306
So refugees in Lebanon don't have access to the labor market.
00:04:06.306 --> 00:04:12.102
In Jordan they have limited access, more than Lebanon, but still limited.
00:04:12.102 --> 00:04:19.927
In Turkey, better than the other two, but still there was a quarter of the number of refugees per Turkish national that a company could hire.
00:04:19.927 --> 00:04:26.370
So I thought and I have to put a caveat, this was 2015 that I was doing my research.
00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:30.471
At that time, I was working remotely myself as a researcher.
00:04:30.471 --> 00:04:38.427
You know, I was doing research with people from different parts of the world, you know, living in the Middle East and doing research with different people, and I was working remotely.
00:04:38.427 --> 00:04:46.562
So my big recommendation from this research was to reconceptualize employment for refugees, turn it into remote work for refugees.
00:04:46.562 --> 00:04:49.576
So I wrote an article for the World Economic Forum at the end.
00:04:49.576 --> 00:04:52.406
It was published at the end of 2017, of course, written way before that.
00:04:52.406 --> 00:04:55.302
Remote work for refugees how can this be true?
00:04:55.302 --> 00:04:56.144
How can this happen?
00:04:56.144 --> 00:05:11.982
So initially I only started to do research and I went back to Jordan and to Turkey and to Lebanon to do more research, to present research to talk about this issue, and at that time I was sort of vaguely interested in sort of who's doing this, what could happen.
00:05:11.982 --> 00:05:16.432
And the other gap that I saw was there wasn't a focus on the soft skills.
00:05:16.432 --> 00:05:25.987
So from my research and education, there was a whole lot of conversation around 21st century skills for young people, but this wasn't being translated into refugee programming.
00:05:25.987 --> 00:05:30.961
So when the programs taught the technical skills, it was only the technical skills.
00:05:30.961 --> 00:05:34.350
They might mention the soft skills, but it wasn't explicit.
00:05:34.350 --> 00:05:42.983
And we know that companies are very interested, and perhaps more so, in people that have these soft skills, the technical skills.
00:05:42.983 --> 00:05:44.827
So these are the two gaps that I saw.
00:05:45.149 --> 00:05:45.730
Fast forward.
00:05:45.730 --> 00:05:53.485
A year later, a couple of years later, I met someone over Skype in those days, way before we had Zoom and you know, and she said well, why aren't we doing something?
00:05:53.485 --> 00:05:56.889
No one's doing this, we have to form an organization to do this.
00:05:56.889 --> 00:05:58.968
So that's when the idea of Naama was born.
00:05:58.968 --> 00:06:07.182
We didn't register for a long time.
00:06:07.182 --> 00:06:08.567
We had lots of conversations, again, pre-covid.
00:06:08.567 --> 00:06:09.591
No one believed that this was possible.
00:06:09.591 --> 00:06:14.384
I had lots of conversations yeah, interesting idea, not viable, not scalable, not possible, and you know.
00:06:14.425 --> 00:06:17.821
But so I sort of quietly persisted whilst doing other things in the background.
00:06:17.821 --> 00:06:23.913
I had lots of conversations, but the remote workspaces is the space that sort of found me and they were captivated by the idea.
00:06:23.913 --> 00:06:29.482
All the remote workers, all of you, my audience, you were the first ones to believe it was possible because you were doing it.
00:06:29.482 --> 00:06:34.793
So it was good that I had confidence, bolstered by the remote work community.
00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:49.067
Laurel Farrar and all of the early remote work community really believed in what I was doing, and this is where I thought oh, there is something to this, because there's a community of companies, of people who are doing it way before the rest of the world woke up to it.
00:06:49.067 --> 00:06:51.846
And when COVID happened, suddenly my inbox flooded.
00:06:51.846 --> 00:06:53.807
Suddenly, there was interest in my work.
00:06:53.807 --> 00:06:57.081
Suddenly, we had people coming to us and you know.
00:06:57.081 --> 00:07:05.002
So we did our first project in Jordan in 2020, in the midst of COVID, because everyone was remote, so what we were doing seemed normal.
00:07:05.002 --> 00:07:11.088
At the time, our proposition seemed yeah, this is what everyone was doing, this is what refugees can also do.
00:07:11.088 --> 00:07:13.911
So that's how I came to the place of doing that.
00:07:14.952 --> 00:07:15.793
That's amazing.
00:07:15.793 --> 00:07:19.057
It's an incredible story and especially that you started it all.
00:07:19.057 --> 00:07:25.865
As you said back before, this was a mainstream way of working.
00:07:25.865 --> 00:07:33.108
Some of us had been doing it for a long time but we were strange, we were unusual, we were a curiosity and people would look at us and think, well, that would never work as a mainstream way.
00:07:33.108 --> 00:07:36.822
That's even affluent Western audiences and people.
00:07:36.822 --> 00:07:38.687
That's never going to catch on.
00:07:38.706 --> 00:07:41.141
Oh, that's not a real job, right?
00:07:41.141 --> 00:07:43.447
Yes, okay, you don't have a real job.
00:07:43.447 --> 00:07:44.930
You're not going into an office, exactly.
00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:53.303
Yes, heaven, spare us from real jobs.
00:07:53.303 --> 00:07:53.865
In that case, indeed, indeed.
00:07:53.865 --> 00:07:56.295
So that's what led on to the foundation of Narmal and what's the origins of that word.
00:07:56.295 --> 00:08:06.370
First of all, and we'll put all the links in the show notes where people can find out more so when I first you know when I was talking to my you know, to the person that sort of inspired me to found this.
00:08:06.670 --> 00:08:10.875
you know we're throwing around the word WeWork, but of course WeWork exists as a company.
00:08:10.875 --> 00:08:13.870
I'm like we can't be WeWork, don't go there.
00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:15.139
It's sort of you know it's sort of poison.
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.084
So we wanted to, you know.
00:08:18.084 --> 00:08:21.889
So I wanted to have something around work, because that's what we're doing.
00:08:21.889 --> 00:08:30.564
Talking about work, I lived, I was living in the Middle East I'm still sort of part-time in the Middle East.
00:08:30.564 --> 00:08:35.620
I was in a coffee shop on my phone talking to someone and then this lovely lady across the table across from me said oh, I heard you talk about refugees, what do you do?
00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:36.501
I'm Syrian.
00:08:36.501 --> 00:08:37.783
And I said, oh, wow.
00:08:37.783 --> 00:08:41.346
So I told her what I was doing, told her the idea of Naamal, I said but I'm stuck for a name.
00:08:41.346 --> 00:08:42.889
And she said what about Narmal?
00:08:42.889 --> 00:08:50.615
It means we work in Arabic and I thought oh, my God, yes, but also Amal also means hope.
00:08:50.615 --> 00:09:00.110
So it's written differently in Arabic, but it sounds the same when you say it, especially English Amal hope and Amal work.
00:09:00.110 --> 00:09:02.607
So we hope, we work, play on words.
00:09:02.607 --> 00:09:07.470
So for me it was perfect, because I believe work gives hope.
00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:08.721
I love that.
00:09:08.721 --> 00:09:12.230
So the concept of hope is embedded in the phrase.
00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:14.527
We work Exactly, exactly.
00:09:14.527 --> 00:09:17.004
That's beautiful, that's beautiful.
00:09:17.004 --> 00:09:20.029
So obviously that was back 2020.
00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:25.649
It feels like an epoch ago now that that event happened and the world changed.
00:09:25.649 --> 00:09:26.792
Remote work changed.
00:09:26.792 --> 00:09:28.303
Where are things at now?
00:09:28.303 --> 00:09:36.013
What projects are you involved with and how has it come of age in this strange new world with its more recent refugee crises?
00:09:36.740 --> 00:09:38.140
Yeah, so I look back.
00:09:38.140 --> 00:09:47.107
Someone said to me yesterday often we look where we are and think we have so far to go, but we don't look back to see how far we've come and sometimes I forget to look back.
00:09:47.107 --> 00:09:54.293
I often forget to look back when I look back and now that we're speaking I look back and I think where we were then and where we are now.
00:09:54.293 --> 00:09:56.215
In Arabic we have this with Alhamdulillah.
00:09:56.215 --> 00:09:58.576
We're growing our team constantly.
00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:06.831
We have two big projects, one in Kenya and one in Ethiopia, pretty big projects, and the projects that are happening now will be our second ones.
00:10:06.831 --> 00:10:11.828
We started in those countries last year, so last year were our first projects in Kenya and Ethiopia.
00:10:11.828 --> 00:10:21.951
They will be continuing with new funding, same donors, new funding for new projects this year Expanding in Kenya, doing train the trainer as well as training refugee talent.
00:10:21.951 --> 00:10:32.491
We just graduated our two cohorts of Ethiopia and Kenya a week and a half ago and it was inspirational to see the learners.
00:10:32.491 --> 00:10:33.241
The learners.
00:10:33.241 --> 00:10:37.893
They aren't only doing well, they're speaking publicly about their experiences.
00:10:37.893 --> 00:10:40.607
You know they're on panels, they're talking about it.
00:10:40.908 --> 00:10:41.330
We also.
00:10:41.330 --> 00:10:43.524
We're so emotional actually to see.
00:10:43.524 --> 00:10:45.927
I can see that in your voice.
00:10:45.927 --> 00:10:47.230
Yes, extremely.
00:10:47.610 --> 00:10:59.424
We also have another project, a big research project, a randomized control trial, which is a test trial to understand the impact of digital training on large numbers.
00:10:59.424 --> 00:11:00.765
So we also have that.
00:11:00.765 --> 00:11:11.693
That's a global program and I think, most significantly and importantly, we started, and we did this as a result of a few things.
00:11:11.693 --> 00:11:22.937
So initially our goal was to provide each and every one of our talent with a job, with an internship, post-training, but it proved very, very difficult to get companies to hire the talent.
00:11:22.937 --> 00:11:39.200
And again, in one of our running, remote communities, I was on this sort of mastermind run and I was the one talking about my challenge, you know, with the community helping, talking about my challenge, you know, with the community helping, and one of the community said he says, lorraine, I won't hire one of your talent, but I'll outsource a project to you.
00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:46.715
And suddenly I'm like, okay, this is what I need to do Build the agency and get companies to outsource projects to us.
00:11:46.715 --> 00:11:47.756
So that's what we did.
00:11:47.756 --> 00:11:51.475
A month later we started the NAML agency, literally a month later.
00:11:51.475 --> 00:12:01.500
So we started in December the normal agency with you know, we have projects doing web dev, digital marketing, digital media, design projects.
00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:03.886
So a quite a, quite a wide range of projects.
00:12:03.947 --> 00:12:05.490
Our refugee talents do the work.
00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:11.172
Our tech leads are the ones that ensure that the product is on, delivered to the client.
00:12:11.172 --> 00:12:18.614
You know, test to level that exceeds the expectations I always say exceeds because it always does exceed the client's expectations whilst the talent do the work.
00:12:18.614 --> 00:12:24.034
So this is how we built a system provide all of our refugee talent experience.
00:12:24.034 --> 00:12:25.671
They get paid for the work, get paid.
00:12:25.671 --> 00:12:27.390
You know very competitive rates.
00:12:27.390 --> 00:12:33.230
You know at least four times what they'd get paid in the country where they live and they're getting the experience.
00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.133
They often are client facing.
00:12:35.133 --> 00:12:40.576
So they get the experience speaking to clients and our goal is with the agency, to.
00:12:40.576 --> 00:13:04.075
Each of our cohorts of graduates will stay with the agency for a year, get the experience, get some money and then we want them to go off on their own so we can have new cohorts coming to the agency because we want to be able to provide our talent with experience doing the work, yes, and it's a career development process for them that hopefully after a year they might be employed directly.
00:13:04.355 --> 00:13:06.464
The client they've been working with Exactly.
00:13:06.524 --> 00:13:16.720
Yes, yes, so you know, so we have, yes, so we have a you know, a number of clients and in fact, so we have a number of clients and in fact, the first client we got, a sort of a UK startup.
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:23.802
He was so happy that we have three other projects with him ongoing now and one more in the pipeline.
00:13:23.802 --> 00:13:27.331
So this just shows that's proof of the pudding.
00:13:27.412 --> 00:13:42.668
Exactly, you might get the first project out of some kind of sympathy or social food notion, but if it's coming back for three more projects, then, it's absolutely proved the use exactly, yeah, so we and you know, and we're always scoping for new projects.
00:13:42.808 --> 00:13:43.431
You know we have.
00:13:43.431 --> 00:13:55.091
You know we have the capacity and also we're building our internal capacity so that we can then take on more projects we have, in fact, we have one of our tech leads was one of our alumni.
00:13:55.091 --> 00:14:04.693
He's sort of on sabbatical now and then, you know, we'll sort of take on another tech lead who is kind of one of our alumni as well, for another program that we partner with.
00:14:04.693 --> 00:14:09.054
We're hiring two more of our alumni to work in our Ethiopia program.
00:14:09.054 --> 00:14:27.561
So we are again practicing what we're preaching we're hiring the people that we train because we know how good they are and we feel by doing this, the clients not only get to see working with the talent, but when they see the talent on our core team normal emails they think, okay, yes, we can do this as well.
00:14:28.065 --> 00:14:36.852
Yes, this is an organization that feels like it has substance to it and a growing track record now of several years, so that's amazing.
00:14:36.852 --> 00:14:38.873
So this is the projects in Ethiopia and Kenya.
00:14:38.873 --> 00:14:41.131
They're working with internally displaced people.
00:14:41.634 --> 00:14:42.296
No refugees.
00:14:42.296 --> 00:14:46.115
So in Ethiopia, our talent are from Eritrea.
00:14:46.115 --> 00:14:52.333
We do have some Ethiopians, under-resourced Ethiopians, but Eritrean refugees, and a couple of Yemeni refugees.
00:14:52.333 --> 00:15:01.619
In Kenya, they're from Sudan, south Sudan, drc and Somalia, and then we have some under-resourced Kenyans as well.
00:15:02.225 --> 00:15:02.466
Amazing.
00:15:02.466 --> 00:15:14.817
So people are gaining skills and careers that they can maybe one day take back to the place they grew up or take somewhere else Exactly, and I think for me, what's most impressive about our alumni is they all want to give back.
00:15:14.945 --> 00:15:19.446
When we ask them what are your ambitions, they don't say I want to work for Google to make a lot of money.
00:15:19.446 --> 00:15:24.857
I want to do something you know all of their ambition is to support their communities.
00:15:24.857 --> 00:15:29.465
You know, to do good, to support the world, and for me that's most inspiring.
00:15:29.885 --> 00:15:31.249
Yeah, it sounds amazing.
00:15:31.249 --> 00:15:46.657
Years ago, back when I had proper jobs before I was remote I worked in community development in London and the refugee population and this will give you a sign of the dates they were mostly Somali and they were families who fled to London.
00:15:46.657 --> 00:16:01.225
We did a lot of work with the women there, but what struck me most about these people was their frustration at not being able to work Not even I was doing remote work then and also their sheer creativity and enterprisingness, the incredible journeys that they'd gone on.
00:16:01.225 --> 00:16:13.849
They actually represented the most forward thinking, the brightest, the most creative, resourceful problem solvers, probably of their generation, who'd seen the writing on the wall and got out and got their families out.
00:16:13.849 --> 00:16:23.967
And it just seems such a loss to the local economy and to the world in general that they weren't allowed to work and they had no way to use those skills to support themselves, which was all they wanted to do.
00:16:23.967 --> 00:16:26.796
It seems that remote work is such a powerful way to unlock that.
00:16:27.445 --> 00:16:30.448
Remote work unlocks talent, this talent.
00:16:30.448 --> 00:16:40.240
Often, if we think of refugees and I want to, you know, because our audience is mostly from Europe the media portrays this idea that there's a refugee crisis in Europe.
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:43.554
I want to say now, there is no refugee crisis in Europe.
00:16:43.554 --> 00:16:47.917
The refugee crises are the countries that border the countries in conflict.
00:16:47.917 --> 00:16:50.013
That's where a large number of refugees are.
00:16:50.013 --> 00:16:52.793
In Kenya alone, there's 600,000 refugees.
00:16:52.793 --> 00:16:55.607
It has the largest refugee camp in the world, the Kakuma refugee camp.
00:16:55.607 --> 00:17:01.248
In Jordan, there are over well unregistered, perhaps over a million Syrian refugees.
00:17:01.248 --> 00:17:03.452
In Lebanon, perhaps a similar number.
00:17:03.452 --> 00:17:07.528
These are the places that experience refugee crises.
00:17:07.888 --> 00:17:09.432
Europe does not have a refugee crisis.
00:17:09.432 --> 00:17:15.287
So I think we have to really stop the negative portrayal of refugees.
00:17:15.287 --> 00:17:18.409
Refugees don't come to Europe because, oh, we want to live somewhere else.
00:17:18.409 --> 00:17:20.470
They come because they have no choice.
00:17:20.470 --> 00:17:25.933
They come because they have no choice and no opportunity, and for me, with remote work.
00:17:25.933 --> 00:17:32.818
So the refugees I live with are living in routes of safety, but often they don't have any opportunity because they live in countries themselves which are under-resourced.
00:17:32.818 --> 00:17:39.482
So these countries often struggle providing employment for their own population, far less another population.
00:17:39.482 --> 00:17:45.865
So the opportunities are very limited for the majority, the vast majority.
00:17:45.865 --> 00:17:50.517
So refugees cross borders to third countries.
00:17:50.517 --> 00:17:58.019
I say third countries because it's a third country or something as a fourth country they're moving to because they don't have opportunity where they are With remote work.
00:17:58.345 --> 00:18:02.122
Yes, and for someone to take that final journey across the sea into Europe.
00:18:02.122 --> 00:18:04.730
How desperate do you need to be Exactly?
00:18:05.010 --> 00:18:05.352
Yes.
00:18:05.352 --> 00:18:09.202
So with remote work I want to give people the choice.
00:18:09.202 --> 00:18:20.757
Remote work gives people the choice to migrate or to stay and if they do decide to migrate, they come with skills, with money in their pockets because they've been working remotely.
00:18:21.085 --> 00:18:38.355
That's so powerful, and we talk about the power of remote work within remote work Europe to unlock lifestyle factors you might not have considered, like choice to live near a city you love or within a climate, or near a beach, or things that are more personal, like caring, responsibilities or parenting.
00:18:38.355 --> 00:18:52.117
It's hard for us in our privileged position to really conceive of the life or death difference it might make to be able to feed your family because you have had a chance to learn a skill that will let you earn some hard currency.
00:18:52.117 --> 00:18:57.230
It must be so inspiring working with people going through that transformation.
00:18:57.911 --> 00:19:04.813
Yeah, it's inspiring, but also it just makes me feel privileged to have the opportunity to work with them.
00:19:04.813 --> 00:19:08.665
I am inspired every day by the talent we work with.
00:19:08.665 --> 00:19:19.932
Every day I'm inspired by them and I feel that this talent that we don't recognize and I want to make clear often it's more than just refugee talent.
00:19:19.932 --> 00:19:29.537
When people in Europe think of people from the Middle East, people from Africa, they have this blanket perception of what they might be like.
00:19:29.537 --> 00:19:46.965
There is no individual understanding of the talent that's there and even if we don't think about refugee talent, if we think about regular populations who've been to university, who aren't displaced, there is very little understanding in Europe of the talent that are in these places.
00:19:46.965 --> 00:19:55.880
So I, you know, I do feel that in, you know, many people in Europe have to really leave Europe, go somewhere else.
00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:06.442
Yes, you want to have your lovely lifestyle in Barcelona or in Gran Canaria, but really you need to understand that there's a lot more to the world than that.
00:20:07.069 --> 00:20:22.300
Yes, people need to open their eyes a little bit and I think, to be fair and truth, a lot of the people that we work with they have traveled and they have seen they might have the privilege of their passport and their education to be able to come back to their safe European cities.
00:20:22.300 --> 00:20:28.953
But I always find that the people who have traveled and lived in other places they've managed to abandon that assumption.
00:20:28.953 --> 00:20:30.256
They grew up with that.
00:20:30.395 --> 00:20:50.046
What's normal for them is normal everywhere and the same priority courtesies and norms, you will see such a different world, and that's what the reference is that traveling from one continent to another on foot, on the ground, under incredibly different circumstances, must witness so much transformation and inequality and difference.
00:20:50.609 --> 00:20:54.821
Yes, but I think we also have to dispel the notion that places in Africa aren't safe.
00:20:54.821 --> 00:20:59.570
There are places which are not safe, but also there are many European cities that I would not go to.
00:20:59.570 --> 00:21:07.578
So I think we have to really understand that this is not a European thing being safe and a non-European thing being not safe.
00:21:07.578 --> 00:21:12.055
I go to Nairobi often, one of my favorite cities, love that city.
00:21:12.055 --> 00:21:17.457
It is incredible, like so vibrant, so much fun, and I don't feel unsafe there.
00:21:17.457 --> 00:21:23.157
So I think and Kenyans are the most talented people that I've met like incredible people.
00:21:23.157 --> 00:21:27.991
So I think we have to really understand that Europe isn't the center of the world anymore.
00:21:27.991 --> 00:21:32.472
We have to break, you know, decolonize our minds, as my friends and I say decolonize your mind.
00:21:32.993 --> 00:21:33.575
Absolutely.
00:21:33.575 --> 00:21:40.878
I love that and getting to collaborate internationally the way that remote work technology now lets us do.
00:21:40.878 --> 00:21:43.951
It's the perfect vector to do that, and you know so.
00:21:43.951 --> 00:21:52.163
If somebody wanted to work with Namal as an agency to hire the kind of talent you have on offer, well, give me a, give me a pitch now.
00:21:52.163 --> 00:21:52.826
Who could I?
00:21:52.826 --> 00:21:55.595
What kind of talent might be useful for me?
00:21:55.595 --> 00:21:59.652
If somebody with an organization is listening and they want to recruit, who could you offer them?
00:22:00.011 --> 00:22:10.463
If you want a website, built a website, an app, digital marketing, any tech design project we can do.
00:22:10.463 --> 00:22:11.445
We have the talent.
00:22:11.445 --> 00:22:15.846
And also, I think also what's important is we want our talent to be exposed to things.
00:22:15.846 --> 00:22:18.053
Our tech leads are incredibly talented.
00:22:18.053 --> 00:22:26.201
So even if the talent doesn't have the experience, the tech leads help them get to the level that they need to to deliver the client.
00:22:26.201 --> 00:22:32.855
Sometimes there's more handholding than we would like, but we understand that it's a process and all of the refugee talent they learn very quickly.
00:22:32.855 --> 00:22:37.192
So after the first time they've learned it, the second time they really can fly on their own.
00:22:37.192 --> 00:22:38.434
They really can do it.
00:22:38.434 --> 00:22:43.873
Any tech work that you need our talent can do and, for example, one of our talent says she wants to have her own game design.
00:22:43.873 --> 00:22:48.198
For example, one of our talent says she wants to have her own game design, video game design company.
00:22:48.198 --> 00:22:50.181
So we have talent that can do that.
00:22:50.181 --> 00:22:54.065
I mean, yeah, they're just inspirational.
00:00:05.248 --> 00:00:11.201
00:00:11.201 --> 00:00:13.769
00:00:13.769 --> 00:00:23.963
00:00:23.963 --> 00:00:30.571
00:00:30.571 --> 00:00:43.871
00:00:43.871 --> 00:00:45.310
00:00:45.310 --> 00:00:47.549
00:00:54.716 --> 00:01:04.963
00:01:04.963 --> 00:01:16.121
00:01:16.121 --> 00:01:20.016
00:01:20.016 --> 00:01:32.233
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:51.519
00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:56.721
00:01:56.721 --> 00:02:12.936
00:02:12.936 --> 00:02:19.233
00:02:19.233 --> 00:02:20.324
00:02:20.941 --> 00:02:22.907
00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:27.444
00:02:27.444 --> 00:02:32.725
00:02:32.725 --> 00:02:39.451
00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:40.561
00:02:40.561 --> 00:02:51.843
00:02:51.843 --> 00:03:05.731
00:03:05.731 --> 00:03:12.125
00:03:12.125 --> 00:03:18.007
00:03:18.007 --> 00:03:24.675
00:03:24.675 --> 00:03:30.709
00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:33.862
00:03:33.862 --> 00:03:46.271
00:03:46.271 --> 00:03:48.164
00:03:48.164 --> 00:03:50.610
00:03:50.610 --> 00:03:52.604
00:03:52.704 --> 00:03:57.354
00:03:57.354 --> 00:04:03.252
00:04:03.252 --> 00:04:06.306
00:04:06.306 --> 00:04:12.102
00:04:12.102 --> 00:04:19.927
00:04:19.927 --> 00:04:26.370
00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:30.471
00:04:30.471 --> 00:04:38.427
00:04:38.427 --> 00:04:46.562
00:04:46.562 --> 00:04:49.576
00:04:49.576 --> 00:04:52.406
00:04:52.406 --> 00:04:55.302
00:04:55.302 --> 00:04:56.144
00:04:56.144 --> 00:05:11.982
00:05:11.982 --> 00:05:16.432
00:05:16.432 --> 00:05:25.987
00:05:25.987 --> 00:05:30.961
00:05:30.961 --> 00:05:34.350
00:05:34.350 --> 00:05:42.983
00:05:42.983 --> 00:05:44.827
00:05:45.149 --> 00:05:45.730
00:05:45.730 --> 00:05:53.485
00:05:53.485 --> 00:05:56.889
00:05:56.889 --> 00:05:58.968
00:05:58.968 --> 00:06:07.182
00:06:07.182 --> 00:06:08.567
00:06:08.567 --> 00:06:09.591
00:06:09.591 --> 00:06:14.384
00:06:14.425 --> 00:06:17.821
00:06:17.821 --> 00:06:23.913
00:06:23.913 --> 00:06:29.482
00:06:29.482 --> 00:06:34.793
00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:49.067
00:06:49.067 --> 00:06:51.846
00:06:51.846 --> 00:06:53.807
00:06:53.807 --> 00:06:57.081
00:06:57.081 --> 00:07:05.002
00:07:05.002 --> 00:07:11.088
00:07:11.088 --> 00:07:13.911
00:07:14.952 --> 00:07:15.793
00:07:15.793 --> 00:07:19.057
00:07:19.057 --> 00:07:25.865
00:07:25.865 --> 00:07:33.108
00:07:33.108 --> 00:07:36.822
00:07:36.822 --> 00:07:38.687
00:07:38.706 --> 00:07:41.141
00:07:41.141 --> 00:07:43.447
00:07:43.447 --> 00:07:44.930
00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:53.303
00:07:53.303 --> 00:07:53.865
00:07:53.865 --> 00:07:56.295
00:07:56.295 --> 00:08:06.370
00:08:06.670 --> 00:08:10.875
00:08:10.875 --> 00:08:13.870
00:08:14.100 --> 00:08:15.139
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.084
00:08:18.084 --> 00:08:21.889
00:08:21.889 --> 00:08:30.564
00:08:30.564 --> 00:08:35.620
00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:36.501
00:08:36.501 --> 00:08:37.783
00:08:37.783 --> 00:08:41.346
00:08:41.346 --> 00:08:42.889
00:08:42.889 --> 00:08:50.615
00:08:50.615 --> 00:09:00.110
00:09:00.110 --> 00:09:02.607
00:09:02.607 --> 00:09:07.470
00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:08.721
00:09:08.721 --> 00:09:12.230
00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:14.527
00:09:14.527 --> 00:09:17.004
00:09:17.004 --> 00:09:20.029
00:09:20.029 --> 00:09:25.649
00:09:25.649 --> 00:09:26.792
00:09:26.792 --> 00:09:28.303
00:09:28.303 --> 00:09:36.013
00:09:36.740 --> 00:09:38.140
00:09:38.140 --> 00:09:47.107
00:09:47.107 --> 00:09:54.293
00:09:54.293 --> 00:09:56.215
00:09:56.215 --> 00:09:58.576
00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:06.831
00:10:06.831 --> 00:10:11.828
00:10:11.828 --> 00:10:21.951
00:10:21.951 --> 00:10:32.491
00:10:32.491 --> 00:10:33.241
00:10:33.241 --> 00:10:37.893
00:10:37.893 --> 00:10:40.607
00:10:40.908 --> 00:10:41.330
00:10:41.330 --> 00:10:43.524
00:10:43.524 --> 00:10:45.927
00:10:45.927 --> 00:10:47.230
00:10:47.610 --> 00:10:59.424
00:10:59.424 --> 00:11:00.765
00:11:00.765 --> 00:11:11.693
00:11:11.693 --> 00:11:22.937
00:11:22.937 --> 00:11:39.200
00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:46.715
00:11:46.715 --> 00:11:47.756
00:11:47.756 --> 00:11:51.475
00:11:51.475 --> 00:12:01.500
00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:03.886
00:12:03.947 --> 00:12:05.490
00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:11.172
00:12:11.172 --> 00:12:18.614
00:12:18.614 --> 00:12:24.034
00:12:24.034 --> 00:12:25.671
00:12:25.671 --> 00:12:27.390
00:12:27.390 --> 00:12:33.230
00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.133
00:12:35.133 --> 00:12:40.576
00:12:40.576 --> 00:13:04.075
00:13:04.355 --> 00:13:06.464
00:13:06.524 --> 00:13:16.720
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:23.802
00:13:23.802 --> 00:13:27.331
00:13:27.412 --> 00:13:42.668
00:13:42.808 --> 00:13:43.431
00:13:43.431 --> 00:13:55.091
00:13:55.091 --> 00:14:04.693
00:14:04.693 --> 00:14:09.054
00:14:09.054 --> 00:14:27.561
00:14:28.065 --> 00:14:36.852
00:14:36.852 --> 00:14:38.873
00:14:38.873 --> 00:14:41.131
00:14:41.634 --> 00:14:42.296
00:14:42.296 --> 00:14:46.115
00:14:46.115 --> 00:14:52.333
00:14:52.333 --> 00:15:01.619
00:15:02.225 --> 00:15:02.466
00:15:02.466 --> 00:15:14.817
00:15:14.945 --> 00:15:19.446
00:15:19.446 --> 00:15:24.857
00:15:24.857 --> 00:15:29.465
00:15:29.885 --> 00:15:31.249
00:15:31.249 --> 00:15:46.657
00:15:46.657 --> 00:16:01.225
00:16:01.225 --> 00:16:13.849
00:16:13.849 --> 00:16:23.967
00:16:23.967 --> 00:16:26.796
00:16:27.445 --> 00:16:30.448
00:16:30.448 --> 00:16:40.240
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:43.554
00:16:43.554 --> 00:16:47.917
00:16:47.917 --> 00:16:50.013
00:16:50.013 --> 00:16:52.793
00:16:52.793 --> 00:16:55.607
00:16:55.607 --> 00:17:01.248
00:17:01.248 --> 00:17:03.452
00:17:03.452 --> 00:17:07.528
00:17:07.888 --> 00:17:09.432
00:17:09.432 --> 00:17:15.287
00:17:15.287 --> 00:17:18.409
00:17:18.409 --> 00:17:20.470
00:17:20.470 --> 00:17:25.933
00:17:25.933 --> 00:17:32.818
00:17:32.818 --> 00:17:39.482
00:17:39.482 --> 00:17:45.865
00:17:45.865 --> 00:17:50.517
00:17:50.517 --> 00:17:58.019
00:17:58.345 --> 00:18:02.122
00:18:02.122 --> 00:18:04.730
00:18:05.010 --> 00:18:05.352
00:18:05.352 --> 00:18:09.202
00:18:09.202 --> 00:18:20.757
00:18:21.085 --> 00:18:38.355
00:18:38.355 --> 00:18:52.117
00:18:52.117 --> 00:18:57.230
00:18:57.911 --> 00:19:04.813
00:19:04.813 --> 00:19:08.665
00:19:08.665 --> 00:19:19.932
00:19:19.932 --> 00:19:29.537
00:19:29.537 --> 00:19:46.965
00:19:46.965 --> 00:19:55.880
00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:06.442
00:20:07.069 --> 00:20:22.300
00:20:22.300 --> 00:20:28.953
00:20:28.953 --> 00:20:30.256
00:20:30.395 --> 00:20:50.046
00:20:50.609 --> 00:20:54.821
00:20:54.821 --> 00:20:59.570
00:20:59.570 --> 00:21:07.578
00:21:07.578 --> 00:21:12.055
00:21:12.055 --> 00:21:17.457
00:21:17.457 --> 00:21:23.157
00:21:23.157 --> 00:21:27.991
00:21:27.991 --> 00:21:32.472
00:21:32.993 --> 00:21:33.575
00:21:33.575 --> 00:21:40.878
00:21:40.878 --> 00:21:43.951
00:21:43.951 --> 00:21:52.163
00:21:52.163 --> 00:21:52.826
00:21:52.826 --> 00:21:55.595
00:21:55.595 --> 00:21:59.652
00:22:00.011 --> 00:22:10.463
00:22:10.463 --> 00:22:11.445
00:22:11.445 --> 00:22:15.846
00:22:15.846 --> 00:22:18.053
00:22:18.053 --> 00:22:26.201
00:22:26.201 --> 00:22:32.855
00:22:32.855 --> 00:22:37.192
00:22:37.192 --> 00:22:38.434
00:22:38.434 --> 00:22:43.873
00:22:43.873 --> 00:22:48.198
00:22:48.198 --> 00:22:50.181
00:22:50.181 --> 00:22:54.065