Community on the Costas and Beyond, with Ali Meehan

Maya Middlemiss  0:17  
Welcome to the future is freelance podcast for solopreneurs digital nomads slow maths consultants, remote workers, ie residents and people living a life without traditional boundaries. We're here for everyone who defies categorization and makes a living and a life their own way.

Every other freelance Friday, were serving up an audio cocktail of expert tips inspired insights and stories from the frontiers of freelancing to help you achieve success with your borderless business. whatever success means to you as you live life on your own terms. Thanks for listening to the future as freelance and for being part of the future of work revolution.

In today's episode, I sit down and I have a chat with Ali Meehan.  Ali is a proper OG remote worker and networker. If you're in Spain, you will undoubtedly have heard of her work with Costa women. But whether you're in Spain or not, whether you're a woman or not, you will be inspired by Ali's story. For somebody who's been working remotely as long as I have we dig back into the archives a bit of what it was like back then for those of you with no idea and expect stuff to just work. And we talk about how networking and community needs have changed and what things have stayed the same. The way that we can support one another the way that our businesses actually synergize and create abundance rather than needing to compete with one another in this wide world. And I'm sure you'll be inspired by Ali's vision when it comes to both the big picture, huge community networking and events breaking that right down into supporting individual people taking their first steps into business and into freelancing. So I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did, there is quite a lot of giggling on this call. So I was obviously very happy. But that's what happens when you talk to Ali.

Ali Meehan  2:18  
So welcome to the future is freelance Ali, it's great to have you with us. Thanks very much for having me, my arm very excited. Well, we've known each other a long time online. But it's been a while since we caught up and some of our listeners may not know about the work you do. So I'd love to start with a bit about the ally story, who you are, how you got to where you are in doing what you are today. Yeah, very happy to share. I started my life overseas, probably about 30 years ago. Now I lived in Australia for a while. And then I met the man who's now my partner and move to Spain. And I was able to move to Spain because in 2000, on my first day of working in a company in the UK, the chief boss came in, fired the man that hired me and said, I've just been to an eat business seminar. And nobody is going to be working from offices any longer. Everyone's going to work from home. And that was in 2000. So he decided to close the new office that I just started to work for. And said to me when I started saying, Could I go for interviews, he said to me, no, I want you to stay on, you'll have to work from home. And I met your direct to the company. So it was a bit of a win win situation. But of course in those days you not very well known. Very few people were working from home. So in those days, I had to live within 300 meters of the phone exchange the post office because that was the only way I could get the internet. My colleague who lives probably about an hour and a half drive from me, and I would meet up monthly to go through things. And then Regis, which of zoom is still around us to collect our post and answer our phone calls. Obviously things have moved on since then. But it did mean that I could move to Spain when I met my husband. Because in those days, actually the internet in finger roll and where I live was brilliant, much better than it was in the UK. He he was one of the first 10 people to have internet in Finland, oran and it was really good in those days. So

when I moved here I carried on working online. And then the company I worked for asked me to move out to the Middle East and we lived in the Middle East and then moved to Asia and then came back here finally. So that's in a nutshell, my journey. So

Maya Middlemiss  4:45  
Spain is definitely home now. I love that we actually both started working remotely the same year in the turn of the millennium, and that you had a boss who I don't know about firing everyone but that was a visionary enough to see I'm quite ahead of his time.

Ali Meehan  5:03  
The whole time throughout the time, I've worked for him for nine years. And he carried on being a visionary. But yeah, I'm prepared to take that risk. Yeah. And we're gonna try this and see what happens. And of course, have faith in his staff, which I think is a big issue still, for people that we would actually work from home. Yes. And of course, in those days, my back office was in the Middle East. And we also had an office in Mumbai in India. And the only way to connect with those people was using MSN Messenger. We used to use MSN Messenger, because I don't think Skype was around in those days. So that was how we connected with each other.

Maya Middlemiss  5:44  
Yes, I remember when Skype came along, and it felt like a really professional upgrade to we used MSN before that IRC. Yeah, it was it was sort of gaming channels and tools. That was all we had before the professional tools came along. And that's, that's hard for anybody entering the remote work space now to imagine what we were up against, but Skype was free. And you could actually call people on it internationally. It was mind blowing, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Yeah. Unfortunately, I

Ali Meehan  6:11  
think it got banned in the Middle East, because they they don't really like online tools like that. But yeah, was it for as long as we could? Yes.

Maya Middlemiss  6:19  
Still some parts of the world. Were becoming more fragmented again, now which but that's a whole other podcast. So we're both of us in Spain at different ends of it. And I first came across you online after we moved to Spain in 2009. Through your amazing network, Kosta women, and again, 2009 isn't as long ago as 2000. But for anybody in this current decade, can you paint a picture of what networking even meant back in those days? Because so?

Ali Meehan  6:48  
Yeah, has Yeah, because in the reason I started, it was because having worked at home, the only person I really saw in Spain was my husband, or the courier man who would deliver parcels to me, because in those days, the way to network really was the school gate if you had children, which I didn't, or to go to work, which I didn't, not in a physical office. So it was really important for me when we came back to Spain to start networking and to build my network. And I do love networking, I'm very fortunate in that I get to do what I love every day. And I love connecting people, I love collaborating. So when we came back here, I decided to create a community, just for women, because I had done some research before we moved back that said, there's more women living where I live on the customers, then there are women in partnerships or, or, or, or men generally. So I and I realized that loneliness was quite a big issue. So I decided to create it just for women, originally, just social, but now we've got a very big business community. And it's gone on since 2010. From there, fantastic. And yeah, networking, then there weren't that many networking groups around. So know, that structured networking, I was fortunate enough, when we came back to meet Steve Hall, who I know that you know very well. And he was really generous and just opened up his black book, as it were of contacts, and put me in touch with so many people, lots of names that you know, and that was how my networking, and my network started really

Maya Middlemiss  8:33  
amazing. And it really was the case then of who you knew, and who could open up those different worlds to you and for anybody now, we relocated to another part of Spain three years ago, and it was just so obvious what to do. Even in lockdown. We had all the local Facebook groups, it was next door there was all these apps, you could just immediately plug into and connect with people. But it was so different, wasn't it when you have asked around? So the first iteration and Acosta women, what was that? Like? How did that grow?

Ali Meehan  9:07  
Because I had worked online for so long for me, the online is world. But for a lot of people, it's not a world and it's not real. So when I started Kosta women, I was only going to have it as an online community. Facebook had just sort of become popular when I started it doesn't end but still was getting your scrap grounding and people beginning to find it. And I thought well, I'll just do online and then quite quickly the lady started to say more Can't we meet up locally? I originally gave it the name Costa women because I thought well I thought small and and really should have thought much bigger. Will he's got women join him from all other parts of Spain, including Madrid, which isn't running Costa at all. And we started having local meetups and now we're about 2025 a month local meetups. Plus doing online still as well, during the 2000. During 2020, we did 230 online events to try and keep the community together and keep women, you know, supported or felt feel that they were supported.

Maya Middlemiss  10:22  
Fantastic. And do you think I mean, I know your focus has always been on women. Because you saw that need when you first arrived, particularly about the women who weren't working and weren't having that social contact and an expat community. But do you think women's networking needs a different or communication needs? Or have have those those factors changed over the time that you've been operating?

Ali Meehan  10:46  
Yeah, I think there's still a difference between the way men and women network. Women are and this is a huge generalization. I do apologize. But women are far more collaborative, or those staple was very collaborative with me when I first started, but women generally tend to be quite open with their networks and say why I don't want what you've what you're offering, but I'm happy to introduce you to x who may do. So there is that difference? Because I men, I think men go in and think well, what's what can I get out of this? What's in it for me more type attitude, which I'm sorry, but that is a huge generalization, but that that's what I've discovered, I think there is still, especially with the Freelancers, there is still a huge market, because there's an awful lot now women only who are just finding out about freelancing, it fits with their lives. And they want to build a network because they they invent new to this. So they really need to get that support and that accountability quite often with other women that are in the same position as them.

Maya Middlemiss  11:56  
Absolutely. And yeah, of course, these are generalizations, but they're actually backed by data on gender, pay gaps, and everything else. And when it comes to freelancing, and building a business of one, which all of us freelancers truly are, you've got to be prepared to hustle and market yourself. And maybe that comes easier to women from a place of collective strength and support. And even being able to practice that in a more of a safe space through the kind of meetups you provide. So what what kind of events are you doing then to support women in this journey?

Ali Meehan  12:32  
So for women in business, particularly we do, online and local events, we do I do an international women's day conference every year, which we have around the the Eighth of March. And this year, we did that I did the 10th, one that I've done. So that's normally got speakers that come and we normally we have had many speakers there too. But speakers that come and talk about specific topics that reflect the market at the moment, we do, I've got a paid VIP business group as well, that meets twice online a month, on top of the other events that we host. We do. We've done a mentorship scheme, and probably going to look at doing that again, but for very new women that are coming into the market now who have not had a business before so that they can get support from women that have had a business for a long time and, and know the ropes and can guide them a bit more. Brilliant. We've done in a lots of different things. Obviously, I'm very happy to promote jobs, because it's quite hard here to find paid work outside of the freelance as well. I, I It's not unusual here. And this, maybe it's different for different countries. But it's not unusual in Spain for people to have multiple jobs, doing different things. But if they can fit it around a niche, that's great. Yeah, they could be doing different bits. But within a niche, that's a great thing.

Maya Middlemiss  14:07  
Yeah, I think we've both been here long enough to recognize that the the fellow long haulers tend to be the people who've got a number of different strands. Or even if they don't define themselves as entrepreneurs or freelancers. They tend to be people who've always got an eye on where the next opportunity is adjacent to what they're already doing and can pick up on those opportunities because the world is changing so fast, the environment that we work in, and that brings challenges, but it also brings new opportunities.

Ali Meehan  14:40  
And I think it's crucial that people when they move to a foreign country, and it doesn't matter if it's Spain and what other country is don't assume that country haven't got what you already offer. Yeah, still a lot of women that are joining coastal women that say well I've got this new bright shiny thing and whilst 10 Other women yeah

Maya Middlemiss  15:00  
Have a look around, there's probably already one in your appointment open. Unfortunately, just Yeah, you, you might see what looks like a gap in the market. But there might not be a market in the gap. And sometimes people think, Oh, I, I what I offer is so unique, I can offer it just to the English speaking community locally. And that's incredibly limiting. Or they think they can just operate locally and ignore the online factor for delivering on a far bigger scale. So it sounds like what you're doing is really opening people's eyes and minds to what's out there.

Ali Meehan  15:33  
And I think it's important also to know that if you have got the same product or service, that doesn't mean that you can't be successful, because we're all unique, and we will deliver it in a different way to somebody else. So there's no reason why you can't be successful, but you just have to be aware that, you know, you aren't the only one, if you are the only one delivering something, there could be a problem.

Maya Middlemiss  15:55  
Some why that person hasn't often offered that previously. Yeah, yeah. If you've come up, if you think you've come up with something really new, then that's a good moment to just pause and ask yourself why someone isn't there already, there might be a good reason. Or there might be some unique twist on it that you've come up with. But it is increasingly difficult to be totally unique, isn't it? It is yeah. Do you think women are better at collaborating in those circumstances? Rather than competing? Do you do you find that you're able to connect people who have similar offerings and talents to do things together?

Ali Meehan  16:31  
I hope so I find that younger women are far more into collaboration than women that are still have the old mindset. When I when I worked in sales previously, I used the Sales Director used to have a black book and you weren't allowed to look at it, touch it, or even see what was inside it. Whereas I think now, women that are coming into the market now, they realize that they you can't do it alone. And they do need that collaboration, I'm very much into collaborating with other women's networks in the area and internationally. In fact, we have a monthly and it's today as we're recording this, we have a monthly zoom call with a women's network in New York City. Each month, we have a speaker one month, it's somebody from Costa women, the next month, it's somebody from their community. And we collaborate on that and have done for five years. So I think it's really important that we do think about collaboration and not see it as Oh, there's somebody else doing the same as me, let's, you know, be scared and and try and compete with them. Let's try and see if there are ways that we can collaborate together and share costs. Yeah, for

Maya Middlemiss  17:41  
instance, definitely and and just bring those different audiences and networks and experiences together. We're all I think, perhaps particularly when you're used to traveling, relocating yourselves overseas, whether that's as a digital nomad or as an expat, or as a slow mad, some of us might describe ourselves. You're more used to accepting the fact that there are other people who will be in your orbit that you don't know about, you can learn from, and it's quite an abundant world out there, when we're not encroaching on each other's patches in nearly the way that people might. Yeah, we are. Okay, maybe that's that's another generalization, but a male female thing that?

Ali Meehan  18:23  
Well, I think the whole abundance thing is really worth looking at, because we can easily get sucked into a mindset of black. Yeah, whereas there really is an abundant world out there, and it is just ready for you to tap into. So that for me is really crucial that we don't get sucked down the lack mindset.

Maya Middlemiss  18:44  
Yeah, I totally agree. And it's been a learning curve for me with the remote work spaying community, the sense that when that started to grow and develop its own momentum, it was what what do these people need from me? What do I need to create? What do I need to find? What do I have got time to build courses or create all these resources, but actually, it's far more synergistic to tap into what's already out there. And we've been able to form some great partnerships with people who can offer things like the legal and tax expertise, I would never in a million years create that. And I don't want to It doesn't interest me, but we all need it. But there are people who have that expertise, who need that community and so on. So it's, it's really a case of we have these tools now that you and I could only dream of 20 years ago. To connect, communicate to find each other and and to share our expertise and experiences. The world's getting smaller, hopefully.

Ali Meehan  19:43  
Yeah, and I think networking hasn't changed. In many ways. It's still the same. It's not about me, it's about you. And I think that's where some people make. They don't appreciate that. That's what it's about. It's about having two hands extended forwards when we little A minute in or visited Hong Kong a lot. They hand you their business card holding on to the two corners and pass it to you that way they all do it. It's like I'm giving a piece of myself to you, right? Whether you accept it, and it's a really lovely way of handing over a business card. Because there's I go to networking events where I call it the spray and pray method where they literally will spray the business card around the room and hope it lands on somebody that might possibly want what they're

Maya Middlemiss  20:29  
straight in the recycling, if not.

Ali Meehan  20:33  
And it's so important that we realize it's more about the person you'll jump into than it is about what you offer. And then you'll find ways that you can offer whatever it is that you've got. But it's you know, we were born with two ears and one mouth, and we should use them in that

Maya Middlemiss  20:46  
proportion. Yes, very wise words. And that's so interesting, that cultural difference as well about offering yourself up to a potential collaboration partner in a very respectful, direct and appropriate way. Do you think that since COVID, and since the shift to online events, that that's changed at all? Are we more used to the idea that we can simply share everything online? In a very shooting from the hip spray and pray way, do you think some of us have lost that ability to connect one to one,

Ali Meehan  21:16  
I think so. Because was zoom in and the meeting rooms are fantastic, it does make it more difficult, because you're not actually meeting somebody face to face and building, having time to build that connection, that collaboration that is far more rapid connections, which does make it more difficult, as you know, here, my OB with people. It's a very, Spain is big, but it's actually very small. And people all tend to know each other. So your reputation is everything, and you can win it or lose it in an hour. So it's really important that we do stay mindful of that when we're networking and to develop that, whether that's online or locally, to build who we are and what we want to offer to the world.

Maya Middlemiss  22:06  
Yeah, that makes so much sense. It's such important advice. Because when we are a solopreneur we are we are our brands, we are our reputation, we are people do have choice, now we people can choose to work with anyone in the world. So they're going to choose the person they have a relationship with that they relate to, that they trust that they know will deliver because they're great to work with as well as great at what they do. Because there's probably a lot of people great at what you do. And to go above and beyond that is so important. And that networking is such a crucial part of it on an online and that's such great advice. Now I know you do individual coaching as well as your, your broad networking. Can you tell me a bit about the coaching that you do? And how you help people on that one to one level?

Ali Meehan  22:52  
Yeah, sure. So I obviously I work with women. But I tend to work with women that have not been in business before or women that wants to grow their business to the next level. Because I we quite often when we start a business we miss out on the foundations, we want to just launch it get out there make as much noise in the market as we can sell, sell, sell. And we actually forget that we need to have a strategy, we need to put in place probably some regular rituals, where we're looking at how successful what we're doing is and then tweaking that if it's not working, and actually having a formal plan that we can work on. I believe that everything we do should be layered up. So you don't need to do everything at once. But we do need to know what, when and why we do certain things within our business. And actually what we shouldn't be doing in our business, which is really the difficult part because that's those bright, shiny objects that we all love and go down rabbit holes and days later think, what have I done? I've actually sold anything. Because it's so because there's so many new things in the market that you know really interesting. When the CEOs of our life and our business, we don't manage it. And that's where the differences with being digital nomads being solopreneurs being freelancers, you know, we were the ones that actually are running our lives. And that's where the whole change is when people come on to this new way of working. And that's a really tough lesson to learn. When I knew when I started you know, it was really difficult because there was nobody else around really to ask, is this the right way to do it? Have you got any tips? Yeah,

Maya Middlemiss  24:39  
what's muddling? Out?

Ali Meehan  24:44  
Yeah, I did hear about one guy who was working from home very early days. He would literally get dressed for work, pick up his briefcase because we all carry briefcases in those days. Walk around the block, come in his front door go up. to his office and say right at work now, and then repeat it at the end of the day. So he would go out the front door, go around the block, come in the front door and say, right, I'm home now and put his briefcase down. And that would be, and that is such a fantastic written

Maya Middlemiss  25:14  
that works for you do, I think the idea of a virtual commute and somehow replicating that that transition is something that a lot of people need, because boundaries when you work for yourself, particularly if you work from home, and those are two different things, but when they combine, it can leave you with a life with no boundaries at all, where you're completely immersed in what you do 100% of the time. And as you said, we are we are the CEOs, we haven't got a line manager coming on at the same time to log off now go and do some self care. So if you're giving people that through your your coaching, and do you do is that with groups as well do those mastermind with one another, or how does it?

Ali Meehan  25:56  
Yeah, yeah. So we I've got a group coaching program as well. And it's really about creating those rituals that work for you. I came up with a goal system, you've probably heard of the smart system. But I came up with one that's called at ease uses the one action, because I believe that's something that we don't do, we come up with these fantastic goals, but we don't actually actually take the steps to work out how I could do this longer term, I think we should just have one or two goals for a year rather than have masses and masses, because that's when it quite often falls off the cliff because you've just got so much else to do. You've you forget you've even committed to doing that. Yeah. So we've come up with a day, one day per quarter, where you just work on what your goals are, for that next quarter. And then don't spend the rest of the the three months worrying about what you're doing, because you've already got a plan in place. That's why I think those rituals are really important. And whatever works for you, we come up with some within the program, but there may be ones that you don't want to work on, but you come up with your own.

Maya Middlemiss  27:04  
That's brilliant. And I think that 12 week planning horizon is a really good level of vision for for a business of one you can it's a timeframe over which you can do with some flexibility, some incoming, some unexpected circumstances, but you can have a clear outputs at the end of it that you want this, these projects delivered or this much revenue and so on and, and a good framework for looking back on as well for evaluating did I actually do those plans to carry out those actions? Can you unpack the action framework? What does that stand for?

Ali Meehan  27:39  
The A in action is that it's actionable that you actually want to do it. And you'll you can actually do it. See is consistent. So it's consistent with where you want to take your business for the future. And that's something else that we look at where are you planning on taking your business to the future or not? I really look longer term like 10 years time. Is it transformational? What you what you're planning on doing? Does it transform what take you from one place to somewhere else? Is it intentional? Do you really want to work on it? Are you intentional about it? Are you going to set intentions to actually take you there? What will the outcome look like? Because sometimes we create goals, and we don't actually have an outcome that we're thinking of, and we haven't put a number on it. We haven't put a date on it. We don't know what the outcomes gonna be. And then the North Star, which is obviously the North Star is really the star in the sky where everybody navigates to. So does it fit in line with your Northstar where you want to take your business longer term?

Maya Middlemiss  28:42  
Excellent. So people can go through that process and come out with very much a map and a compass by the sound of things for the period ahead, what it's going to look like how you'll know when you've got there, because there's evaluating those outcomes. And even knowing what you've done, I think it's very easy to set quite woolly goals. And even I mean, even if you don't achieve those goals, provided you've got that orientation, that North Star that you've moved in the correct direction, because it could be that you don't achieve the outcome but you've at least traveled along that pathway. And then you can course correct if necessary, you can reset those goals for the next quarter coming up. That's really powerful to stay on track. Do people work together with the same group over the year and support

Ali Meehan  29:30  
the year and also those small steps you know, you don't need to take giant leaps forward. It's just those small steps and celebrating those small steps. Because I think we're very much a world now that wants to see big change done very quickly. And that just isn't practical. We need to take small steps forward in whatever businesses you know that we have. And don't forget to celebrate So I something I don't do enough, you know, I'll say I'll do the international women's day conference, it'll be a success, I'll be happy but don't actually celebrate and move on to the next thing. So it's really important to take that time out to actually celebrate and review where you've come from where you are now and how you're going to move forward.

Maya Middlemiss  30:20  
Brilliant. Yeah, I think that's so important. And again, it's something as freelancers solopreneurs, we don't have anybody else patting us on the back and say, Look, you did an amazing thing here. And actually calling that out, we have to be able to do that for ourselves, no one else is gonna do it. And it's finding that that line between the kind of LinkedIn humblebrag, sort of, I've just achieved this thing every day, and picking out the things that really matter. And taking time to you don't have to even shout about it. But to reward yourself, it might be with time off or some some self care or treat or something. And other times it might be appropriate to share it. And call attention to something that might not be visible to anybody else. And if you know what you're measuring, you can do that. Even the small things, because it's not always a big event is it it might be a very private milestone, it might be something that's been bubbling away for a long time in your life, or you've managed to integrate some aspect of life and work that's been troubling or conflicting, there are so many things that we as freelancers need to get under our belt and move on. And it's easy to move straight on without taking that that moment. So is this permission from me and ally, wherever you're listening? If you are in the future, please send us a comment, send us a voice note and tell us what you're celebrating in your freelance life today. Because I think those stories are so important. And it can be something very small, that's very meaningful for you. And it could be got a

Ali Meehan  31:48  
plugin to work on your website. Well. You know, it's really important those those answers, you know, we don't like you just said, we don't have a back office that can give us IT support when we need it. So normally, it is us trying to figure out watch so many YouTube videos as to how to do this thing. My husband and I bought a new car stereo for our car, and we can't make it work. We're now thinking looking hard to get a 15 year old round to get it for us. It's just not working. But that's where your community is fantastic Maya because people can drop in and they can say, you know, I need to be accountable for this. I've got to get this going by x date. Can you please all hold me accountable? I think women are particularly bad at sharing their successes. Because I don't want to be having too many bragging rights and saying, Look how amazing I am. I've just done this because they're worried what other people think. And usually those other people are friends or family them, but they're more worried about them people they don't know.

Maya Middlemiss  32:56  
Yes, that's true. And we do have tremendous capacity to lift each other up and support each other. And sometimes, all you have to do is make a very tentative ask and people are there. And I know I've been so fortunate in my business networks and relationships that there have been times when I was transitioning to freelancing in the first place six years ago and falling into that life for a very great height. And it was only by opening up and asking and saying Does anybody know know anything that that led to all of the opportunities that have come my way since and I hope I've been able to pay some of that back through my own activities because it really is about supporting each other and you don't know in the future who might reach out to you. I think the idea of mentorship is very powerful. It's something I'd like to look at more for remote work Spain because I think there's these these huge trend changes and how we live and work are so empowering, but they are daunting as well.

Ali Meehan  33:56  
Yeah, chatting me out only a few steps if that in front of each other.

Maya Middlemiss  34:01  
Yeah, we can all learn something from each other, whether it's how to sort your car stereo out the business, you know, you can have a an exchange of skills and experience with people in a circular way that lifts everybody up without encroaching on anybody else. So it feels to me like a very exciting time that we're going through in terms of the technology and the connectivity and the networks that we have. What are you excited about Ali for the future of entrepreneurship, freelancing remote work in Spain?

Ali Meehan  34:31  
Well, I mean, I'm hoping this digital nomad visa that Spain has come up with will at least give people more choices. Hasn't been what we hoped it would be. But I think it will give people more choices. And I'm already seeing more women come into Spain that are freelancers who are using the new digital nomad visa, I think I mean co working spaces for so many in my town. Oh great. And if they If you can, like you have done, you know, build digital communities for me, those are what makes us makes my heart sing. I love digital. And I love communities. So put it together as perfect. Yeah. Malaga city is aiming to become the new Silicon Valley of Spain, although I think Valencia is also on the way to Yes.

Maya Middlemiss  35:23  
Well, you know, a friendly rivalry, as, as we said, there's abundance.

Ali Meehan  35:30  
Make goods, I mean, the my concern there is the cost of housing now, and actually being able to find housing, because I know in Valencia, and here, it's very expensive now housing. So I think that's there's going to be a bit of a challenge. So there needs to be some way of supporting that. But I think the whole collaboration, co creation, as more freelancers come around and more entrepreneurs, having those virtual teams co creating things together, I think that will be a fantastic way for freelancers to expand what they learn and what they know and share what they know and what they're learning with other people. It's really super important that we learn every day and we learn within our niche, whatever our niche is. So for instance, it's important to continue upskilling and adapt. So AI, for instance, you know, how can we use that to our advantage? Rather than being super scared about it? How can we take it and use it to our advantage?

Maya Middlemiss  36:35  
100%, especially for those of us who love being solo operators, there's so much power in automation, and freeing us up to do the work that really matters. So it's yes, there are challenges. But all those challenges, create opportunities. I've really enjoyed this conversation. And it feels like we're both of us. We've been there seen it done it. And we're still excited. optimistic about what's coming down the line. So is there any final thoughts you'd like to leave our listeners with?

Ali Meehan  37:04  
Just continue learning Don't, don't give up. Things do change. But just don't give up learning. Don't give up sharing, don't give up reaching out to people around you. Because you may post in a group, you know, I really need help with this and somebody else who posts or so do I. So you know, it's good to share and be vulnerable in that way and ask for help. So just don't give up asking for help and do join communities that will support where you want to go. Brilliant, because they're there to help you.

Maya Middlemiss  37:36  
Excellent. Well, we'll make sure the links to your programs and to Custer women, of course, are in the shownotes for anybody listening. You can find ally online, just Google caster women should be at the top of your search results. We will put the links in anyway. Ali, thanks so much for sharing with futures freelance listeners today.

Ali Meehan  37:56  
Thank you, Maya.

Maya Middlemiss  38:01  
Thank you for listening to the future as freelance podcast. We appreciate your time and attention in a busy world and your busy life. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a fellow Freelancer help us grow this movement of independent entrepreneurs. If you rate and review the future is freelance and whatever app you're listening to this right now or over at Future is freelance dot x y Zed, then that will help spread the word and help us reach more people who need to hear this message and join the conversation. Together we can change the world and make sure the future is freelance. This is Maya Middlemiss Wishing you success and happiness in your enterprise. Until our next episode.